Abortion= Birth control, no? So...?

Is abortion counted as a form of birth control? If not what is the difference? By law there is no difference, correct?


Therefore abortion = womens exclusive right to birth control after impregnation, right? After the man can legally have any influence, right?


So with that in mind- How do women think they would feel if they were fully dependent on a mans decision as to whether or not they could ever have a baby- even after impregnation?Abortion= Birth control, no? So...?
Yes, it is. Even if you're aborting a ';rape baby';. That is still a form of birth control.








ADD - think about it for a second, people. What is birth control, but a way to prevent parenthood? And what does abortion result in? You guessed it: not becoming a parent. Also given that most abortions are performed on healthy babies who could easily survive, and babies that are not the result of rape, I would say that the biggest reason they're being aborted is because someone doesn't want to be a parent. That is the essence of birth control.Abortion= Birth control, no? So...?
Right, first abortion = birth control. Wrong they are different things abortion is the removal of a fetus. Birth control prevents the formation of the fetus, a subtle yet important difference.


The much more interesting part of your question is how women would feel about being dependent on men to have children. I find this an exceptionally interesting concept as I never ever wanted children and my husband really really did. We married after much discussion about how he would feel about never becoming a father. I ultimately took the decision that it was unfair to deny my husband something that he wanted so desperately and subsequently we have had a beautiful baby daughter whom I love more than I ever thought possible. I think that if children are conceived as they are 'supposed' to be, that is within a secure and stable relationship with the full knowledge and support of each partner, who actually carried the child would make no difference.
It's not fair to the man, that he has no say in whether or not she has the baby. If he wants it, she should have to carry it to term and hand it over, and pay child support. That's what happens when a man doesn't want a child he has fathered, yet everyone says ';He should of thought of that BEFORE HE IMPREGNATED HER.'; That should go both ways. If she didn't try to prevent it, she should be just as responsible as the fathers out there. I don't agree that women who are raped should have to carry a child that was a forceable impregnation, since she had no decision in it. I would be mad as hell if a man decided for me, that is my decision, and I did, therefore, I did not ask the father for support. It was his choice, and never did.
While I fully support a woman's right to choose. Abortion is still an ';opt out'; option, no matter how you want to sugar coat it or demonize it. Men will always resent that extra option, even myself to some extent but Im trying to garner perspective, thats why I come here.





I only have a problem with it when we can make campaign commercials regarding ';How much time should she do'; if abortion was made illegal and then turn around and toss men in jail for missed child support payments for a child he did not want, or currently disabled and can't make income, or under economic stress (lay off).
Well, actually, I would feel bad about going against the guy's wishes. After all, that so called baby, is also his. But, however the decision has to be based on what I believe mostly. If I was to be dependent on the guy's opinion then I would feel that my life as been uncontrollably restricted.
';How do women think they would feel if they were fully dependent on a mans decision as to whether or not they could ever have a baby- even after impregnation?';





If the pregnancy resided in HIS body, I would understand why I had no say over it.
I think birth control is supposed to prevent conception. Though abortion is technically ';birth control'; (stoppage really) I don't think it is in the spirit of birth control.
Only a moron believes abortion equal birth control. Abortion is a last resort when unwanted pregnancy results not the first line of prevention.
When I first started reading about this issue, of men wanting equal say about using abortion to opt out of child support, I dismissed it because when it comes down to it, no matter what anyone thinks, it's a woman's body. I was hearing an expectation of some men to be able to force women to have abortions that they did not want. That would never be tolerated anymore in modern society as it was in the past when men presumed to own and control women and children as property to do with as they wish. But, I then comprehended the issue was more about men wanting the same ';opt-out'; clause during pregnancy that women have. If women support abortion as their right to decide if conditions are not right to bring a child into the world, that the mother simply cannot afford to support another child, for example, then why shouldn't men have the same right to say THEIR conditions are not right to bring a child into the world? I do GET that point. But, as much as that seems ';fair';, it clashes with modern reality on three points.





1. In modern reality, women are no longer the breeding stock of men who get to call all the shots. The part that bothers men the most in this issue is the part about a nine month period in the human reproductive process during which they no longer have control over what happens to their seed or their fate and all of that is utterly in the hands of women for nine months. That gives the prehistoric male-entitlement types conniption fits. But, that's reality. The fact is there is a stage in the sequence of human reproduction during which the entire matter is in the hands and minds of women only. Male ';reproductive'; role in nature ends upon ejactulation. Men need to really focus on their reproductive roles and responsibilities up to that point rather than ever again expecting to have a say in a woman's roles and responsibilities. That's just reality. Women can vote and shape society and law now. Men should never think they can go back to bullying women about their bodies ever again. They need to focus on their own bodies and consider carefully PRIOR to ejactulation if conditions are right for them as men to bring a child into the world or not. THAT'S when men have a say and should assume accountability for their actions and decisions and act responsibile.





2. Another modern reality is children have rights in most nations. We all genetically and emotionally have a right to know who our parents are and to feel some positive connection with them if possible. Men wanting to ';opt out'; of supporting their daughters and sons say to the children and society that men as a sex are not fit to be parents. MRAs are really damaging the image and standing of men as fathers with especially this so-called ';Father's Rights'; issue of ';opting out'; of supporting or acknowledging their own children. 19 out of 20 cases in court in which a man contests a woman's solitary right to decide to abort or not, the men want to force the woman to have an abortion when she wants to carry the pregnancy to term. When that fails, men then want to ';opt-out'; of supporting the child. I attend conferences about deadbeat parents and the REALITY is there is actually for the first time in my long life a mounting belief that men IN GENERAL are not suitable to be parents, even grumblings for sterlization of young men. Good grief. Guys need to take a lcloser ook at the Warren Farrell MRA types proposing stuff like it's a father's right to sexually initiate and caress his own daughter, because those are the weirdos in court and speaking in government ';representing ';men'; and they're the types the courts and governments are hearing from the most. There is rampant disgust in the system against men and father's rights right now in the ranks and this ';opting out'; issue just makes men look worse.





3. And, finally, the biggie reality. Money. Men wanting to ';opt-out'; of supporting their children are probably literally in DANGER in my opinion, the sentiment being so HOSTILE right now toward deadbeat parents in governments. Deadbeat parents, parents abandoning their children, unemployed parents, layoffs, increasing poverty, Republican domestic failed policies of plundering social services budgets, and the recession has caused a collapse of social services budgets, states and federal agencies that support children for those tens of thousands of parents who ';opt out'; of supporting their children. Trust me. This is NOT the time for people to be whining about opting out of supporting their children. Draconian measures are being proposed everywhere I go. The MORE that the people who are trying to keep the ship from sinking hear about men wanting the right to ';opt out'; of supporting their children, the less respect and credibility men have right now in the eyes of the courts and governmental bodies, city, county, state and federal.



Yes, abortion is birth control. It literally controls births from occurring. That is not an opinion. The controversy lies in whether it should be used as birth control.





In places where abortion is legal, a man cannot coerce a woman to have an abortion, nor can he deny her obtaining one.





It would be unacceptable for a man to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her pregnancy. But I know where you are going with this. You will now ask ';then why is it ok for a man to be fully dependent on a women's decision?'; Because the pregnancy occurs in the woman's body, not the man's. It is not because women are superior, and men's opinions don't matter. It is for the purely biological reason that pregnancy occurs in the woman's body. Because of the blatant fact that pregnancy occurs in a woman's body, it is ridiculous to try to seek fair and equal ';opting out'; rights. The repercussions of a woman opting out through abortion, and the reprecussions of a man opting out through denying born children financial support, are entirely different.
They used to be. It was called life before Roe v. Wade.





No one really cares about men's perspective - they can't get pregnant. I can. Therefore it's my call. If they'd like to be like that guy on 20/20 and get a sex change so they CAN have babies, then by all means, go for it. :)





edit. Um... the single mother ';phenominon'; as you call it isn't because women have superiority complexes... try doing actual research instead of parroting what your pastor is telling you. It's based on numerous socio-economic factors, not one of which is feeling superior.





Women don't care about men's opinnon because it's OUR body. Not a man's. My point was I fail to see why men care so deeply about an issue that will never directly effect them. Sorry - it's me that has to go through hell either way. They will always be an observer, never the direct participant.
Well, abortion does control birth, so techniquely it is a kind of birth control. It is obviously not an ideal method nor should it be a primary method of birth control. Conception control is much better for the body ie. condoms, plan b, contraceptive pills etc. Generally, when people talk about birth control they mean conception control.





Of course, to refer to abortion as 'birth control' simplifies abortion. The choice to abort is not necessarily one of birth/no birth, since this ignores the traumas and responsibilities of full term pregnancy and the social reprocussions of being pregnant and giving birth. Obviously, this is not to say that abortion and/or a short pregnancy does not come with it's own responsiblity or trauma.





The argument that men should have the same rights over pregnancy also simplifies the issue. It erases the woman from the equation. Instead of considering the relationship between the woman and her pregnancy it looks at the relationship of father and potential child and mother and potential child. It elevates the unborn to a status which is not logical by ignoring the processes of pregnancy.





The fact is that when it comes to human reproduction men cannot possibly have the same rights as women because, due to our biological make up, men do not have the same roles as women. To pretend that men and women are equal when it comes to reproduction or to argue that men and women should have the same choices borders insanity. To answer your final question, as a woman, if I had no right to choose abortion myself and it depended entirely on men, I'd be so confused by the insanity and the ignorance of the obvious, I'd do everything I could to foster change.